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Post by prinia on May 8, 2005 15:22:48 GMT 10
Interesting discussion taking place here - which is all for the good.
It's not only young men who make the wrong decision. Many young women unfortunately feel that having a baby is a ticket to that "beautiful everlasting happiness" promised in the Mills and Boons - and have bub after bub to different men.
I personally applaud Guy and Gary's stance. Why not? They are thinking people and have as much right as we do, to put their thoughts forward. Gary would have seen so much - wasn't he involved with Youth Alive in Victoria? I'm sure Guy has had school friends who have possibly made the choices.
Life is full of choices - my belief is that life is actually choices all the time.
What time will I get up/go to sleep, what will I eat/drink
and then you get to more important choices and sometimes there are people incapable of making reasonable choices for themselves.
Not long ago a friend of mine's daughter with a young bub was having trouble feeding and was given a suggestion by mother, so the daughter who had been booked into the clinic for the usual weekly or whatever chat - chatted - and that sister immediately took her to task, and pooh poohed mother's suggestion - because grandmother's "always want to do...". That suggestion laughed at by my friend and myself - because she certainly didn't!! We neither of us are particularly the extra mother hen type.
But the daughter is an intelligent, free thinking individual and went to see another... who gave correct and immediately rectifying remedy. The point of this is - girls of all sorts (intelligence, creed, ethnic origin) when in "the club" are given all sorts of information... its the choice that's the hard part.
I'm quite sure Guy and Gary are not going to be there handing out philosophical advice, I would see them as more likely steering the education and information and counselling - and future - by means of proper educationalists who have all that at their disposal, and who are fully aware of the circumstances.
We "girls" here are pretty self sufficient - what about those that have a hard time choosing whether they even WANT to get up in the morning.
However - good discussion - glad you're getting your teeth into it.
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frogo stuggling to continue
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Post by frogo stuggling to continue on May 8, 2005 15:24:09 GMT 10
( my computer played up and was making it very difficult to type. I think it knows that what I want to say will be controversial). It seems to have fixed itself now, so I will continue). I wonder if the 'family first' party planted the seed of this idea in Guy's head. RELIGION and abortion are clearly heavily on the political agenda. Tonight there is a programme on abc about the Labor party realising the important role a religious stance could play in winning votes. Abortion has already been raised recently as a topic in politics. my computer really is worried it seems - I'll try again -- if I don't finish it will be obvious. here goes -- Guy himself said in an interview somewhere that he didn't know anything about politics and clearly his main focus is a religious one. He probably sees it as an opportunity to further his religious beliefs, hence he is useable for a political agenda. there is a subltle message coming through, as it always does, that pregnancy is 'womens fault' - almost nothing to do with men. I so wish that Guy had chosen something else, or concentrated on the male side of the problem. But of course girls - 'if we don't put our OH OH'S away' - we will become pregnant!! I haven't expressed this well cos of computer disruptions but I am feeling very angry about this right now and am starting to see Guy as becoming very 'preachy' despite what he says about not judging anyone. Please Guy stick to the music!!!!!!
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Post by frogo again on May 8, 2005 15:30:00 GMT 10
but I am feeling very angry about this right now and am starting to see Guy as becoming very 'preachy' despite what he says about not judging anyone. Please Guy stick to the music!!!!!! actually angry is the wrong word. 'disappointed' would be better. You probably think I have wandered off the topic, but this is all about the messages behind such a move. A centre to support people with regard to abortion is a wonderful idea - no doubt about that, but it's not Guy's business.
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Post by half story on May 8, 2005 15:35:48 GMT 10
What about it's Guy business when one of his good friend suffered through this experience and all he wants to do is help - finacially and emotionally. Please be more understanding, don't misjudge his good intention. He is one good Guy.
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Post by frogo responding on May 8, 2005 15:39:20 GMT 10
guys intentions are always good , I'm absolutely sure of that and didn't say otherwise.
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Unbelievable to Reg
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Post by Unbelievable to Reg on May 8, 2005 15:40:41 GMT 10
I apologise for taking what you said the wrong way. When reading your other post, I felt you were putting them down and saying they couldnt do it without making sure they took care of all the other areas. I think I understand you a bit better now. Sadly I think you will find there are too many of us that know first hand, the problems of being in a single parent family and I jumped when I read about the programs you wanted covered because there are all too many programs like these run by the gov., shoved down our throats but I don't always believe the gov. has our best interest at heart, only theirs. I can see though, that similar programs run from the heart and faith could be of more help.
Teaching men to be responsible!!!!! Sorry for my opinion here, I think they are taught enough and know whats right. Once you get past those that are weak and selfish and give in to their urges without too much thought, you get those that care and those that dont. We can only pray for a way to get through to those that don't. Good Luck! OK, thats for trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place but as for teaching them to be responsible after the fact, I cannot comment as I don't really know whats currently available and it would be good to have something in place. As for the counselling of mothers after giving birth, I think they would have that covered as it says in the report that they want to set up counselling and referrals. As you say, faith that these things are being taken into account and I think the things mentioned were probably just a rough mention of SOME of the things they intend to look in to. Yes, I have faith that they will look into this a long way and offer something which can only be good.
Amen.
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Post by What the on May 8, 2005 15:47:08 GMT 10
Where did you read that? Were we reading two different stories? All I read was that they had heard horrific stories about what some women have been through without being given ALL the facts and that they wanted to do something to help them.
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reg to unbelievable
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Post by reg to unbelievable on May 8, 2005 15:54:29 GMT 10
I apologise for taking what you said the wrong way. When reading your other post, I felt you were putting them down and saying they couldnt do it without making sure they took care of all the other areas. I think I understand you a bit better now. No, I wasn't saying that at all. I truly believe that these two are pure of heart. I really do. I was just sying that I was hoping that the things that I brought up would be taken into account. That's all. Just my opinion. But, I really admire then for being able to make a FAITH CHOICE. I really do. It is hard to step out on FAITH sometimes. What they are doing gives me hope that things are possible. Teaching men to be responsible!!!!! Sorry for my opinion here, I think they are taught enough and know whats right. Once you get past those that are weak and selfish and give in to their urges without too much thought, you get those that care and those that dont. We can only pray for a way to get through to those that don't.[/quote] Okay. Again...speaking fro own childhood experience. But FAITH is stronger, right? So I am willing to have FAITH that this is the case. Will pray anyway! Yes, probably so. I was just throwing my two cents in there. But I am sure that you are right. Again...FAITH. AMEN. Peace, Reg
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Post by interesting on May 8, 2005 15:56:57 GMT 10
i dont think u need to have an abortion as u put it to be able to help or want to help encourage and give advice in this issue they could have had someone close to them go through abortion and seen what it has done to them and want to raise more awarenees about it i dont think though whole political thing has anything to do with i see it purely something they belive stongly about and wanted to help, not tell peolpe whether they should or shouldnt get an abortion he even said that i think it would be like a centre for counseling and having peolpe there to talk through there options and also peolpe that have made the decision to have an abortion and arnt coping with it to give them support i think goood on him for seeing a need and not just standing there but actually wanting to get out there and do something and lets face it i think its soemthing that is over looked there are ppl out there that have made this decision and totally regreted it and i having a centre like this may help ppl realise that they have the support to do this and they wont be alone i dunno my opinion is yeah u dont have the right to take someone elses life ..i think its great and something that has probaby been needed for a long toime just somehwre for young women who may be in this situation to go and talk to other ppl in same situation and offer support to each other !
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Post by sweetpea on May 8, 2005 16:00:49 GMT 10
Frogo - I don't think you need to worry about Guy being used or manipulated in this area. Both he and Gary seem to be independent thinkers and have a lot of discernment so I'm sure they won't allow themselves to be used in any way that doesn't fit with their own values and beliefs
As for the counselling centre - women will still have a choice as to whether they take advantage of it or not and it may help balance the different advice they receive.
In NZ women aren't given much advice on the alternatives to abortion or counselling afterwards so options are good.
No doubt I have some bias - both my children are adopted and I'm so thankful their mothers didn't choose abortion but considered the options. Also, they and us organised the adoptions through Catholic Social Services although none of us are Catholics, and I couldn't speak highly enough of them. They are tremendously supportive and still keep in touch with all of us involved. (Birth fathers too!) If what Guy and Gary plan offers support like that I'm sure many people will benefit from it. I don't think they will be preachy at all but just give people the information and support them in their decisions.
Guy is a wonderfully talented musician but he has a social conscience too and I'm not surprised that he wants to do something that he believes will benefit society. It's all part of who he is!
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Post by and who knws on May 8, 2005 16:05:59 GMT 10
they alwyas word things differntly in articles to make it sound more preachy im sure guys intentions are all good and wanting to give support to women that feeel like they dont know what to do or regret what they ahve done and as for teaching men u can teach as much as u like but the fact of the matter is women stil get pregnant and or dont feel liek they can cope with a child its a problem that will almost always be round me personally find it really sad to see someone make the decison to have an anbortion so anything to help that is a good thing i think
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Post by cough on May 8, 2005 16:16:47 GMT 10
"I've really learned to love people alot more, which probably sounds strange , but through that experience having everyone believe in me being on tour and seeing people sing your words, it's the best feeling."
AAWWHHH!
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Post by What the on May 8, 2005 16:37:42 GMT 10
I have yet to meet someone that's had an abortion that's gotten over it - that's for starters. Sorry Elle but that's BULLSHIT.
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reg stepping up for elle
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Post by reg stepping up for elle on May 8, 2005 16:51:37 GMT 10
Sorry Elle but that's BULLSHIT. I think that Elle was speaking from her experience. Just with the people that she has come across. I don't think that she is speaking on behalf of everyone. Peace, Reg
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Post by What the on May 8, 2005 16:53:40 GMT 10
Obviously David Campion had the weekend off Did Guy's old paster put this lame idea in his mind? "I've met a few women who have had one and their stories are just horrific, they just shock you," he said in Adelaide yesterday. "Some have never recovered." "It's the worst thing do, make an uninformed, uneducated decision, that's how stuff goes wrong." Did he hear these women's storys on an AOG video? Surely he's genralising - what woman in her right mind would tell Guy Sebastian her abortion story? Of all people? Exactly Guy. Sometimes Guy's naivety is endearing. Other times not.
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