news articles 13 July

[Sunflower]

Guest-PaulJ said:

It is definitely not fair. It is, in fact, frightening, that a fundamentalist church can exercise so much pull that they literally control the Aria chart by getting enough of their congregation to buy their cd. Only three copies of this cd were sold outside NSW. All were sold directly by Hillsong, too, showing how limited its real appeal is.

No doubt to fill Hillsong's own coffers. This has about it the stench of every worst American religious nightmare. Talk about manipulation. Next we'll find one of their congregation appearing as a contestant in Idol and tell me they won't be voted right to the top by sheer force of numbers.

I hope Aria, at least, takes steps to change their policies so that this cannot happen again.

I actually didn't notice what you said. But I agree it is a bit scary. Almost brainwashing their congregation to buy the cd so they can make more money? I didn't think that selling cd's etc were what Churches were all about... Think there is something wrong here.

There is another thread in the general section about Hillsong and focus on material wealth.

[Maddyn]

I don't think there's sinister about the Hillsong congregation wanting to buy their own CD!

If ARIA has for some reason bent its policies for Hillsong then it's not fair to other artists like Paulini.

But if someone puts out a CD and people want to buy that CD then it's their right to do so. It's just popularity.

[Wombat]

Hillsong church would not be making their people buy the CDs!

I'm sure that the CD will be released to the rest of Australia in due course, through Koorong Bookshops as they have with all the others.

They are usually petty good and sell well in Christian circles ;D

[Sunflower]

Maddyn said:

I don't think there's sinister about the Hillsong congregation wanting to buy their own CD!

I don't think there is anything sinister about them wanting to buy the cd either.
I just thought it was a bit strange that a Church would release a cd for sale and was questioning the motives.

[Sunflower]

Wombat said:

Hillsong church would not be making their people buy the CDs!

No they wouldn't be making people buy it. I just wonder if it supposedly sold so many copies to reach number one then that must have been some hell of a promotion.

[prinia]

C;mon, usually their songs are pretty good and full of zip and verve.

So perhaps there are a lot more wanting to get into it..

I wonder

[MaybeNext]

Sunflower said:

I actually didn't notice what you said. But I agree it is a bit scary. Almost brainwashing their congregation to buy the cd so they can make more money?

"Scary" - what are you frightened of Sunflower?
"Brainwashed"? - oh really. Do you think that maybe, just maybe people actually want to buy this CD?
Is this any different to you buying Shannon's CD and going to his concerts? Or is it only Christians that attract this distain.

Sunflower said:

I didn't think that selling cd's etc were what Churches were all about... Think there is something wrong here.

It isn't what churches are about, but then again getting into the charts wasn't their goal either. They just want people to be able to put on the CD and enjoy a bit of worship time when at home or in the car... and obviously there are lots that want to hence the huge sales.

And remember, it is the secular world that is doing the counting.

Sunflower said:

There is another thread in the general section about Hillsong and focus on material wealth.

I think it more your fixation on their apparent wealth. They have big premises because they need them to fit the congregations of over 10,000 in it. The fact that 10,000 want to come each Sunday is in itself a testment to its high regard in the community.

Guest-PaulJ said:

It is definitely not fair. It is, in fact, frightening, that a fundamentalist church can exercise so much pull that they literally control the Aria chart by getting enough of their congregation to buy their cd. Only three copies of this cd were sold outside NSW. All were sold directly by Hillsong, too, showing how limited its real appeal is.

The reason it has sold only 3 copies in the other states is because it hasn't been released there yet. Their figures will appear on next weeks charts. If Hillsong really wanted to get big figures to get into the charts wouldn't it have made more sense to release it Australia wide simulaneously. That would have surely bolstered the sales figures and guaranteed them success.

It will sell well in other states as so many people are waiting to get their copy of the next songs. It is as simple as that. People (and lots of them apparently) actually want to listen to this music. I'm sorry if that fact "frightens" some. It isn't meant too.


PS regarding Costello being there - both he and Latham were given an invitation to come. Only Costello accepted.

[Sunflower]

MaybeNext said:

"Scary" - what are you frightened of Sunflower?
"Brainwashed"? - oh really. Do you think that maybe, just maybe people actually want to buy this CD?
Is this any different to you buying Shannon's CD and going to his concerts? Or is it only Christians that attract this distain.


It isn't what churches are about, but then again getting into the charts wasn't their goal either. They just want people to be able to put on the CD and

What I said still stands. As I am not a member of that Church I can take a more objective view. So I don't think you can compare a popstar whose main, if not only purpose is to sell cds with a religious organisation mass selling a cd. There is a huge difference between these things which is why I was questioning the motives.
This is just my opinion but something just doesn't seem right about it

[Sunflower]

I don't mean to offend anyone but maybe I am just seeing things from a different point of view. And perhaps voicing an opinion that may cross the minds of others who do not post.

[Sunflower]

Sorry something else,

If getting into the charts didn't cross their minds then why did they ask ARIA for retailer status so they could directly supply their own figures to ARIA?
Another thing I don't understand is that if the cd was released on July12 then it shouldn't have even appeared on the chart until next week? Strange, just a few thoughts.

[Maddyn]

Sunflower said:

Sorry something else,

If getting into the charts didn't cross their minds then why did they ask ARIA for retailer status so they could directly supply their own figures to ARIA?
Another thing I don't understand is that if the cd was released on July12 then it shouldn't have even appeared on the chart until next week? Strange, just a few thoughts.

Maybe ARIA gives these conferences retailer status because they act like stores, and including these sales would give a more accurate reflection of the CD's success?

[Mute]

Frightening ???Scarey I dont think so. I love Hillsong
Thank you Hillsong......'For all you've Done'. ;D




And it is so Fair, so there!

[MaybeNext]

Sunflower said:

Sorry something else,

If getting into the charts didn't cross their minds then why did they ask ARIA for retailer status so they could directly supply their own figures to ARIA?
Another thing I don't understand is that if the cd was released on July12 then it shouldn't have even appeared on the chart until next week? Strange, just a few thoughts.

I think the thought did cross their minds - hence their listing with ARIA, but it wasn't their goal. Their goal is to get their music out to people who want it. If co-incidentally they get into the charts then good on them. This shows Australians that there is an alternative music scene that most didn't know existed. It has worked. You all know about it now.
So the motive is different as you say, but not in the way you mean.

Regarding your second question, I don't know. That is something that ARIA can sort out. Maddyn's answer makes sense to me.

And another thought - a lot of little Christian bookshops, would not be ARIA listed retailers so I don't even know if their sales would count. I actually don't know about those small stores. Anyone know? Mybe they go through the Hillsong listing.

PS I am not a member of their church either - does that make me objective too?

[MaybeNext]

Sunflower said:

No they wouldn't be making people buy it. I just wonder if it supposedly sold so many copies to reach number one then that must have been some hell of a promotion.

The promotion is basically Hillsong each Sunday and the conference.

For other states - it is a poster in a Christian bookshop. The rest is 'word of mouth'. No big marketing budgets there.

Pleased to see that you have downgraded your adjectives from "sinister" to "strange".

[Bill]

www.undercover.com.au/news/2004/july2004/20040714_aria.html
"The real number one album in Australia this week is an album the industry would prefer the media didn’t focus on. It is the compilation album ‘So Fresh The Hits of Winter 2004’.
‘So Fresh The Hits of Winter 2004’ sold over 39,000 units last week in Australia but it didn’t make the chart. As a compilation album, ‘So Fresh’ is relegated to its own compilation chart category and doesn’t show up on the National Top 50 albums. Compare that to the 9,769 units ARIA claims were sold by Hillsong Church without any sales at retail.
While Hillsong Church sold all but three units at a conference. ‘So Fresh The Hits of Winter 2004’ sold fairly evenly across the country. In fact, NSW or Victoria sales alone still make it the biggest selling album of last week.
‘So Fresh’ sold 13,065 copies last week in NSW, 10,290 in Victoria, 8,749 in Queensland, 4,471 in South Australia and 3,044 units in Western Australia.
According to ARIA chart rules, an album should contain at least 25% of previously unreleased material by various artists before it can compete in the general chart making most compilation ineligible for the Top 50 albums. The simple fact is that most Top 10 albums wouldn’t even be in the Top 10 if compilations were included.
Hillsong Church sold 9,769 units across Australia but 9,766 of those units were sold in NSW. The Hillsong Church album sold at their conference prior to the official release on June 12 making both retailers and labels uncomfortable with ARIA’s ruling allowing it into the chart. According to retailers approached by Undercover, the album shouldn’t qualify for a chart position until next week because it was sold pre-release.
An additional industry concern about the Hillsong debut was the accreditation process. It is believed Hillsong reported their own sales figures to ARIA without going through a retailer. The artist and label in this case is believed to be its own retailer and accredited store. No other artist or label has that accreditation in Australia.
ARIA breaks down retailers in to three categories – Department stores, Chains and Independent Stores. In the category breakdown, the Hillsong Church album doesn’t appear anywhere.
Hillsong Church have gone on record stating they had 21,000 delegates at their conference. With 9,766 units sold that surely qualifies as a per-capita sales record. According to retailer estimates, the sales margin on that amount of units if sold at the recommended price would have been around $105,000.
The big test will be next week’s chart. Industry punters are suggesting a new world record with Hillsong having the fastest disappearing number one album of all time anywhere in the world.
Tracklisting for So Fresh The Hits of Winter 2004:
1. Anastacia – Left Outside Alone
2. Shannon Noll - Drive
3. Jessica Simpson – With You
4. Baby Bash – Suga Suga
5. Beyonce – Naughty Girl
6. Outkast – The Way You Move
7. Human Nature – When You Say You Love Me
8. Maroon 5 – This Love
9. Pete Murray – So Beautiful
10. Avril Lavigne – Don't Tell Me
11. Black Eyed Peas – Hey Mama
12. Britney Spears - Toxic
13. Sarah Connor - Bounce
14. Enrique Iglesias – Not In Love
15. Guy Sebastian – All I Need Is You
16. Eamon – F**k It (I Don't Want You Back)
17. Three Days Grace – I Hate Everything About You
18. Courtney Act – Rub Me Wrong