its written by Mia Handshin
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Post by its written by Mia Handshin on May 18, 2005 18:50:59 GMT 10
Ultimately abortion's a matter for women The Advertiser TUE 10 MAY 2005 By Mia Handshin WHAT a guy says matters to some extent. But at the end of the day, it is something a guy can never really understand - termination of a pregnancy is, ultimately, women's business. It takes two to create an unplanned pregnancy. But the reality is that the woman has a whole lot more to deal with in terms of the short and, more often than not, long-term consequences of one. Lately, the loudest voices in moral opposition have been male. I don't know why this would be surprising, actually; history shows that men have often played a starring role in this debate. On Sunday, the views making the news were those of another famous guy - Guy Sebastian. I'm generally a fan. I don't take a view as others might that, as a singer, he should stick to singing and keep out of social or political issues. As someone who has attained influence, respect and notoriety, he is entitled to use his position to make powerful statements of real import. I'm all for his planned trip to Africa with World Vision. However, I am a little edgy about his other so-called "crusade'' - as the headlines revealed - to curb abortion. Apparently he wants to establish a support clinic for women considering abortion and for those who have terminated a pregnancy. His concern partly relates to a lack of information and education about the issues involved. Guy, have you ever been to the Pregnancy Advisory Clinic, and asked questions about the information and education provided? In South Australia, a young woman cannot just walk off the street and request a termination, no questions asked, no discussion entered into. Legally, she requires the consent of at least two medical practitioners that there is either fetal disability or that more risk to the pregnant woman's life, her physical or mental health would be posed by continuing rather than terminating the pregnancy. The process of ascertaining this view is arrived at through discussion, questioning and exchange of information. I do not believe that a woman in SA can make a totally uninformed, uneducated decision about terminating a pregnancy. I'm all for support services to assist women to deal with unplanned pregnancy and the consequences of whatever choice they make. Guy says he is against "moralising to women about the issue or telling them what to do''. If his campaign was purely about education and support, fine. But I cannot see how such a service could provide neutral, non-judgmental support. If the intent is to curb abortion, the noble desire to provide education will surely be influenced by this. Guy is entitled to his say. Just as all guys are. However, let me, as a woman, say that it is far easier to stand on the sidelines and moralise that it should be "curbed''. But so should rape, contraceptive failure and unplanned pregnancies, despite the best of intentions. Men will always be on the sidelines when it really comes down to it, and it is women who need to be doing more of the talking. www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=1619&topicId=25820&docId=l:279199870&start=8
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Post by choke on May 18, 2005 18:53:21 GMT 10
At last! The voice of reason! You have got to be kidding!
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K
Back up Vocals
Posts: 187
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Post by K on May 18, 2005 18:56:36 GMT 10
I meant the letter to the editor just asking aloud really..... no biggie. doesnt seem to say?
I didnt even know you could get letters to editors on the net
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Post by more crap on May 19, 2005 12:24:02 GMT 10
Post Abortion Syndrome - Stories of Family Descruction
An excerpt from Father Trosch’s website.Women who have had abortions often marry two or more times and/or live with men who are not their husbands. Having had one abortion they commonly have a replacement child which as often as not they also abort because their basic life condition has not changed. These women are frequently abusive to their husbands and children. They yell at, bait into fights, scratch, beat, and/or throw things at their husbands. The abuse of their children covers the range from extreme over protection --giving it no freedom at all even to the extent of having the child or adolescent sleep with them-- to extreme physical abuse, including torture and death. Verbal abuse of co-workers is also common particularly at times of anniversaries which include date of abortion(s), projected date of birth(s), Mother's Day, and Christmas. Post-abortion complications are numerous. They are highly variable and can be extreme. Many of these women are repelled by the infants and children of other women. Abnormal and unexplained behaviour is prevalent among women who have had an abortion. Few observers ever learn of the reason for unexplained actions or reactions which have abortion as their source. Father David C. Trosch www.trosch.org/pas/@pas_1-test.htm
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Post by What the hell on May 19, 2005 12:34:05 GMT 10
Post Abortion Syndrome - Stories of Family Descruction
An excerpt from Father Trosch’s website.Women who have had abortions often marry two or more times and/or live with men who are not their husbands. Having had one abortion they commonly have a replacement child which as often as not they also abort because their basic life condition has not changed. These women are frequently abusive to their husbands and children. They yell at, bait into fights, scratch, beat, and/or throw things at their husbands. The abuse of their children covers the range from extreme over protection --giving it no freedom at all even to the extent of having the child or adolescent sleep with them-- to extreme physical abuse, including torture and death. Verbal abuse of co-workers is also common particularly at times of anniversaries which include date of abortion(s), projected date of birth(s), Mother's Day, and Christmas. Post-abortion complications are numerous. They are highly variable and can be extreme. Many of these women are repelled by the infants and children of other women. Abnormal and unexplained behaviour is prevalent among women who have had an abortion. Few observers ever learn of the reason for unexplained actions or reactions which have abortion as their source. Father David C. Trosch www.trosch.org/pas/@pas_1-test.htm Who the hell is Father David C. Trosch when he's at home? Never mind... I think I'll waste a brief part of my lunchtime and go look at the website listed. What a load of tripe, dribble, crap, garbage... I'd even use expletives if I were that kinda girl! This post is from F5... unable to log in from where I am.
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Post by To more crap on May 19, 2005 12:54:33 GMT 10
Well, I went and looked at that website but can't be bothered consuming a second more of it. I've always hated tripe...
F5
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Post by l on May 19, 2005 12:58:36 GMT 10
To: nore crap If this is what you think of the material that you are posting then how about NOT posting it .
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Post by fingersfly on May 19, 2005 13:54:28 GMT 10
Post Abortion Syndrome - Stories of Family Descruction
An excerpt from Father Trosch’s website.Women who have had abortions often marry two or more times and/or live with men who are not their husbands. Having had one abortion they commonly have a replacement child which as often as not they also abort because their basic life condition has not changed. These women are frequently abusive to their husbands and children. They yell at, bait into fights, scratch, beat, and/or throw things at their husbands. The abuse of their children covers the range from extreme over protection --giving it no freedom at all even to the extent of having the child or adolescent sleep with them-- to extreme physical abuse, including torture and death. Verbal abuse of co-workers is also common particularly at times of anniversaries which include date of abortion(s), projected date of birth(s), Mother's Day, and Christmas. Post-abortion complications are numerous. They are highly variable and can be extreme. Many of these women are repelled by the infants and children of other women. Abnormal and unexplained behaviour is prevalent among women who have had an abortion. Few observers ever learn of the reason for unexplained actions or reactions which have abortion as their source. Father David C. Trosch www.trosch.org/pas/@pas_1-test.htm What an absolute SCREAM!!! ;D ;D (or it would be if it wasn't so tragic)He also claims that post-abortion women are responsible for global warming, repeatedly taking 10 items through the 8 items or less aisle, having unroadworthy cars AND they relish telling other people's kids that Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny aren't real!
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Post by Article on May 20, 2005 9:06:15 GMT 10
Guy takes a clinical approachMay 20, 2005 AUSTRALIAN Idol winner, chart-topper and anti-abortion support clinic owner.The latter title may soon apply to Guy Sebastian, who has announced plans to establish a clinic in an attempt to curb the abortion rate, rather than merely concentrating on touring and writing tracks for his next album. The deeply religious Sebastian said at the weekend he did not intend to moralise to women on the subject but believes establishing such a clinic was vital to help women make informed decisions regarding the consequences of abortion. "I've met a few women who have had one and their stories are just horrific, they just shock you," he said in Adelaide on Saturday. "Some have never recovered. "It's the worst thing to do – make an uninformed, uneducated decision. That's how stuff goes wrong." The planned centre would be aimed at helping both women who have had abortions and those who are considering having them, Sebastian said. "I'm anti-abortion; I don't believe any human being has the right to decide the fate of another, but I'm totally against telling other people what to do," he said. He hopes to establish the centre with the help of one of his backing singers, Gary Pinto, who was formerly part of the group CDB. The services it offered could include counselling, accommodation, rehabilitation, an information hotline and a referral service. dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1266&storyid=3151176
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Post by for AVA on May 20, 2005 19:18:44 GMT 10
Hi Ava,
I sent you a PM (I just want you to know that you are not talking to the wind. I read your post and heard your questions.). I saw your posts on the other thread.
Please read it okay?
Hoping that you are well and happy.
Peace,
Reg
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latest article May 20
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Post by latest article May 20 on May 20, 2005 23:42:26 GMT 10
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Post by Ava on May 21, 2005 0:53:46 GMT 10
Hi Ava, I sent you a PM (I just want you to know that you are not talking to the wind. I read your post and heard your questions.). I saw your posts on the other thread. Please read it okay? Hoping that you are well and happy. Peace, Reg thankyou Reg, just read it Guy URGENTLY needs to make a statement about this crisis centre he is planning. These are my thoughts: a crisis centre is worth applauding, but if an ANTI-ABORTION clinic is not what he is trying to do, then he needs to nip it in the bud before more folk like the Right-to-Life group make him their posterboy. I am pro-choice and any crisis service must be UNBIASED. Until Guy clarifies what influence his own beliefs will have on this crisis counselling etc, some people are going to assume he's trying to heap guilt on women at their most vunerable. Because I am a fan of his music and him, I am goint to wait before I judge. But others may not and I fear that will cause a backlash on Guy.
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for AVA ps to lurker FYI
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Post by for AVA ps to lurker FYI on May 21, 2005 8:31:09 GMT 10
thankyou Reg, just read it PMed you again! I agree with you. I believe that he will...at the right time. Just my belief. I agree. A crisis and information center is a great thing. This is my ONLY understanding from what he has said thus far. That it is a counseling center. I am interested in seeing how things unfold as well. Also, I stand by my earlier posts....it is my wish that information be provided on the consequences of child bearing and child rearing. For example, if you have a young woman (single and perhaps unskilled and uneducated) decide to keep her child, how will she raise the child? She will need info on how to get a job, how to further her education, how to raise her child (ie post natal care and childhood education), and general support. I think such a center would be a good place to tackle these issues as well. A VERY WIDE NET FOR CATCHING THOSE WHO MAY OTHERWISE FALL BETWEEN THE CRACKS. Women and children are often the FIRST to fall into the depths of poverty. Again, I agree. Hands should be held...regardless of the decision made. Also, I believe both Guy and Gary have the ability to stand on love and compassion. To me, those qualities are ones which allow you to have an open and unbiased mind and heart. I have read in one of his posts on Yahoo that it is not his intention to "tell women what to do." Something to that effect. But I do understand what you mean. Providing the masses with something like a position paper. Detailing how this will be done, etc. The provision of more information. In my humble opinion...it is a necessity. For understanding. I believe this will be done in time. Again, just my belief. Sometimes our greatest lessons are learned through adversity. Like you, I think that it is a good that opinions have been voiced. There is knowledge and much to gain from LISTENING. Truly LISTENING. And, it is very difficult to even know your OWN story if you don't know the story of someone who is "standing next to you." We are all connected in so many ways. I am also thinking that he knows this. So, we will wait and see. And I am standing on FAITH. Eyes open, heart open, ears open! Much love to ya AVA! Peace, Reg ps to the poster/lurker FYI: I read your post in the Guy Section. I hope that you will still feel comfortable enuf to continue to post as a guest here. YOU are valuable and so are your thoughts. Peace and Joy to ya!
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frogos big unanswered question
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Post by frogos big unanswered question on May 21, 2005 9:42:16 GMT 10
If after all the counselling will this service provide referral for a client to have an abortion if that is what they want or need?
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Post by to FROGO LADY on May 21, 2005 10:24:04 GMT 10
If after all the counselling will this service provide referral for a client to have an abortion if that is what they want or need? None of us know any details yet, Frogo Lady. Other than they wish it to be a counseling support center. That is all any of us know right now. Peace, Reg ps miss ya!
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