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Post by nell on Dec 5, 2004 21:18:20 GMT 10
Sorry if this has been posted. I have read many of Bernard Zuel's reports before and he is usually very balanced. A bit of a mixed bag here though.....
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Guy Sebastian By Bernard Zuel December 6, 2004
Page Tools Email to a friend Printer format State Theatre, November 4
Even the most curmudgeonly of crusty old music types will tell you that Guy Sebastian can sing. He has a voice of sweetness, he hits the notes, he carries a tune.
He is also a friendly, winning stage performer, with an easy rapport with his audience, even if he doesn't really have anything to say to them for the moment.
Unlike Delta Goodrem, for example, who looked stiff and unconvincing in her brief ARIA Awards performance, Sebastian, backed by a seven-piece band, three backing vocalists and four dancers feels at home on stage with a microphone in his hand.
That he came to a singing career via an exploitative but brilliantly effective television program is neither here nor there. Singing careers have emerged from such unlikely starts as Playboy bunnies (Deborah Harry), tiny tots on a family-friendly talent show (Tina Arena), a cobbler's workshop (Peter Brocklehurst) and the occasional actor, model and music journalist (the Pet Shop Boys' Neil Tennant).
What remains unanswered about Sebastian is whether he has what it takes to build a career from this start. What is still unclear is if that is to happen, on what he will build that career. As perverse as it may sound, being able to sing is not even close to being the most important factor. Many a career has lasted years with little genuine singing ability while many a very fine singer has found him or herself reduced to plying their trade in the anonymous Tuesday afternoon slot at a suburban RSL.
Sebastian's rabid and very fragrant audience (was there a run on J-Lo's Glow and Britney's Curious this week?) doesn't care of course. They knew all the words to the first album's songs, greeted the new album's songs with almost as much fervour and screamed themselves hoarse from beginning to end.
But the seeds of Sebastian's present and future problems is that he just doesn't have the songs to reach out beyond this core group, who came to him after all because of his TV fame, not his material, and who in a year or two will have grown up or grown bored and moved on to someone else (Casey Donovan maybe?).
Co-written new songs such as Out With My Baby, Kryptonite and Story of a Single Man and buy-ins such as Sweetest Berry are serviceable and tick all boxes in pop/R&B and sweet ballad genres but last no longer in your mind than it takes for the last note to fade. He doesn't have anything as catchy even as the much maligned Mercury 4's Every Little Step and he was made to look pedestrian by his support act, the half Beyonce/half Kelly Rowland star-in-the-making Jade MacRae, who does have some killer R&B tunes.
Don't write him off, for he is a personable performer, a decent singer and has a bigger fan base than most "cool" acts will ever have. But he better find some good songs quick smart.
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What do people think of this?
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Post by starry unlogged on Dec 5, 2004 21:27:15 GMT 10
i don't think this dude knows what he is talking about... GUY's songs are amazing... and if he doesn't becomce big in aus...it is more than likely he will becomce bigger in asia...and possibly us...hehe...hope so at least..hehehe I know what the journo means though...by saying that u don't need a killer voice to stay in the industry...alot of the industry is alls exed up etc..if ya get what i mean we all know what lies beyond GUy..and we lovehi for it..YAY!!! GO GUY!!!>. <STARRY> p.s..i don'tthink i answered this properly..lolz...butyeh..
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Post by MaybeNext on Dec 5, 2004 23:48:35 GMT 10
There are a lot of good points made here but I think he is fishing just as we and BMG probably are at present. Even the most curmudgeonly of crusty old music types will tell you that Guy Sebastian can sing. He has a voice of sweetness, he hits the notes, he carries a tune. He is also a friendly, winning stage performer, with an easy rapport with his audience, even if he doesn't really have anything to say to them for the moment. This point it taken we can all agree with that - except the bit about anything to say. Honestly do any of them except those who go off on politics or whatever the current bandwagon is, or they stick to a pre written script with identical jokes interspersed thoroughout. I've seen that before with other pop singers and personally I thought it was great the first time but when I saw them again with the same jokes I was not impressed . Guy didn't hence his Q&A time that was so popular. He doesn't stick to a script and people love hearing him talk. Have you heard any other performing doing this segment? I haven't but please correct me if I am wrong. Another given - especially considering his church singing background that he has been doing for 10 years - the dancing is new though. Thank you. This is the big question for the music industry. What is it that makes it big and why? I don't follow this bit entirely. What is J-Lo's Glow? This is quite unusual I think. A very strong support base but currently not so much wide appeal. I am wondering what is happening as I don't think this has really happened quite like this before. At least it isn't common. Underground music and niche market stuff can be like this. No it was because of his voice and interpretive skills in singing. TV fame etc wears off very quickly as with Scott Cain etc. But this hasn't happened with this core group. No those followers have already moved on and I think that is the point, but he missed it. and I believe that is wha twe are seing now. Guy has a small but very strong fan base that have seen beyond the TV show bit and love his music, but so many have moved on and have yet to be impressed. They have seen only one song (OWMB) and have judged the whole album on this. Several people I have talked to find OWMB too pop for them and so think that this is his style now. They have to be reimpressed with his songs, especially his ballads something loved about "Angels". This is the part I don't agree with and I think he is fishing here. Some of the best and well remembered songs are the ballads of the past. Sure a few catchy ones are in there but ballads are every bit as big. To be honest I am surprised that Kryptonite hasn't done that well. When I first heard it, it made my heart soar. As ballads go it is beautiful. Ahem. Totally disagree here. She was OK but not a chance mate. Many in the audience thought so too. A lot didn't show (which wasn't her fault) but a lot left part way though her segment too. Personally her singing was all over the place campared to Guy's. Maybe Bernard Zuel was looking at her long legs in that short skirt . Hedging his bets both ways maybe ... or does he see something we see but is at a loss to explain the unusual situation with regarding an avid fan base but not so good sales generally. Just a rounder off to finish the article. Obviously he is not a ballad fan. To me this album has some brilliant songs on it, it is just that a lot of people haven't heard them yet. How else can this album get such good reviews from some.... which brigns me to his next point. He didn't bring into the equation is the amount of influence the 'cool' factor has. The big "cool' bands at the ARIAs and several other column writers have set about deliberately trying to destroy Guy and in the eyes of many of the young this is what counts. If Jet et al think Guy is uncool then they will follow suit. Guy has to overcome this and this is where we, the army, can make a difference. Guy's music has not only got to sound great but has to be seen as cool too. He has to win these little polls and popularity awards to be in with a chance. Are we up for it? !!!
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Post by ava unlogged on Dec 6, 2004 2:57:07 GMT 10
He think's Mercury 4's Every Little Step is good?!!!!! Has he ever heard Bobby Brown's version??!! while I think he made some valid points, I don't think he knows enough about popular RnB music to make any sort of judgement worth listening to. I will always be a fan of Guy
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Post by ava unlogged on Dec 6, 2004 3:35:04 GMT 10
There are a lot of good points made here but I think he is fishing just as we and BMG probably are at present. This point it taken we can all agree with that (except the bit about anything to say - honestly do any of them except those who go off on politics or whatever) or he sticks to a pre written script with identical jokes interspersed thoroughout. I've seen that before and personally I thought it was great the first time but when I saw them again with the same jokes I was not impressed . I am not sure what you mean by this MaybeNext. Are you saying that Guy had pre-scripted lines for audience at the concerts? If so, it's not that uncommon. I think it's quite common practice for large scale world touring acts. I saw Kylie's Fever tour twice and watched the dvd. Lots of similar lines thrown about. I don't follow this bit entirely. What is J-Lo's Glow?Glow is J-Lo's first (giant selling) first fragrance. It appeals to her younger fans and I think Bernerd is saying that a lot of younger fans were at Guy's concerts because just like Glow and Britney Spears' Curious, it's the 'in' thing. Does he not realise that Guy's fans have stuck with him for this long because we love his spirit and his music, not the 'idol' packaging? If anything, being an Idol fan is a stigma and it's been Guy & Shannon and their devoted fans that have given the show credibility. It's a low shot to say such a thing, especially to the music buying public. I totally agree with you MN. This reviewer, along with a lot of the Guy's critics think that his fanbase are still a product of the show. Guy's 'fanbase' has narrowed yes, but that was to be expected because a lot of people who bought his album last year did so because it was released during the hype of the show. Whoever didn't connect with Just as I am haven't bought Beautiful Life. They aren't fans but maybe one day they will really discover what we all see in Guy. A year after Idol, Guy has this solid fanbase who enjoyed the first album and want to hear more from him. These are fans who are willing to pay to see him perform and will buy his music. I'm so sick of critics saying we're still here purely because of the show. If that were true, we'd all be on the Casey Donavan bus (I believe Casey fans to be quite different to Guy fans, just like U2 fans are different to Beyonce fans). It's a copout of an excuse to label us like that. This is the part I don't agree with and I think he is fishing here. Some of the best and well remembered songs are the ballads of the past. Sure a few catchy ones are in there but ballads are every bit as big. To be honest I am surprised that Kryptonite hasn't done that well. When I first heard it, it made my heart soar. As ballads go it is beautiful. Me too, I had it on repeat for over 55 minutes on my player when I first connected with it. I think it is all down to the mix. If Guy had released a slower version (like he did on Idol), it would've done better, but people will love songs for different reasons. I love songs from artists that are no longer recording and that proves that popular music is not what sells but what people hold in their memories. Guy is in my musical timeline for sure. Exactly. They think we're all sheep? they should take a look at themselves. The ARIAs constantly ignore Australian acts until an overseas market finds them and says, "good job". Case in point, Natalie Imbruglia, Kylie, Jet, The vines. And by that time, sometimes their music is so heavily influenced by foreign producers it's hardly 'Australian'. They need to get over this paranoia about looking 'cool' and get on with the job of nurturing real Australian talent in Australia. count me in
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Post by PRINIA agreeing on Dec 6, 2004 4:18:54 GMT 10
And obviously missing the caps lock key!!
Oh so especially about Jade. He must have been looking at the legs!!!
She's.. good.. But I didn't feel Jade was special. There was something missing in personality for me, and there was only one song I really liked and that was Gary Pinto's - had she released that as a single - wow!!
And Kryptonite?? To me a big puzzle.. But again agree and so wish that the clip - or a similar clip - with just Carl and Guy (in that beanie *sigh*) had been used.
Couldn't they release singles from the album, but new live versions? THAT version of Kryptonite, THAT version of OWMB which is on that (new) single - I do love the Oh Oh version on the album - and - and - *remembering and getting all weak kneed* THAT version of Beautiful Friend when he jammed with Adam Reilly on Saturday night (his falsetto - of which I'm only half a fan - was simply INCREDIBLE).
Guy is absolutely a genius LIVE and I'd better get ready to go to work!!
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Post by ava unlogged on Dec 6, 2004 4:37:27 GMT 10
there is a piccie here too!
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Post by ss not logged on Dec 6, 2004 7:19:35 GMT 10
so much 4 me getting ready 4 work! [q] They knew all the words to the first album's songs, greeted the new album's songs with almost as much fervour and screamed themselves hoarse from beginning to end.[/q] i take this as a compliment lol yes we did do that! lol [q]Unlike Delta Goodrem, for example, who looked stiff and unconvincing in her brief ARIA Awards performance,[/q] 1. first time she has performed after being sick 2. she just split with poo who the song was about need i say more thanku [q]Sebastian, backed by a seven-piece band, three backing vocalists and four dancers feels at home on stage with a microphone in his hand.[/q] yup! [q]But the seeds of Sebastian's present and future problems is that he just doesn't have the songs to reach out beyond this core group, who came to him after all because of his TV fame, not his material, and who in a year or two will have grown up or grown bored and moved on to someone else (Casey Donovan maybe?).[/q] phhhhhhhhhh this doesnt even warrant a response! i have to agree a bit though for some reason the wider public didnt respond to kryptonite mayb the only like guy singing boppy tracks?? i have a feeling if he released oh oh that would go off esp coz summer is here go the remixes! no matter what happens i know we will all still support Guy he is still going strong music reviewers r just pushing him like they should
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Post by MaybeNext on Dec 6, 2004 8:37:02 GMT 10
Ava I have modified my above post as it was a bit misleading (late night writing and editing). I meant that Guy didn't have a script but others have done in the past. I was thinking of Ross Ryan years ago who told great jokes but used the sames ones over and over even in the same town months later - my illusion of him dissipated as I realised that it was just for show and not the real him.... Unlike Guy who had a Q&A session as people really want to hear him talk. I haven't heard any other singer have this before (but correct me if I am wrong). So true. I never saw the first series (except the last couple of performances) and I wasn't hooked till much later. I did buy Guy's 'Angels' single and his album but that is when I got drawn in. Then I watched this new series right from the beginning and set about videoing every show and watching it carefully but I got bored with it and have wiped most of my tapes (and I bought new ones ready for the series too). The only ones left are the ones with Guy on .
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Post by Sunny on Dec 6, 2004 8:50:24 GMT 10
You guys have really got to the heart of this reviewer's misguided words - have you sent him an official letter? I really think you should do that because he needs to know that he is completely barking up the wrong tree. He doesn't sound like such a nasty piece of work as PC, so might listen to reason. Why not give it a try? I certainly didn't agree with his comments about Jade, or Guy's songs. And as for his fans - of course we're in it for life! MBN, Ava and Prinnie, why don't you each write your comments to Bernard and see how you go. I would really love to know how he reacts. GO GIRLS!!!
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Post by MaybeNext on Dec 6, 2004 10:30:32 GMT 10
You guys have really got to the heart of this reviewer's misguided words - have you sent him an official letter? I really think you should do that because he needs to know that he is completely barking up the wrong tree. He doesn't sound like such a nasty piece of work as PC, so might listen to reason. Why not give it a try? I certainly didn't agree with his comments about Jade, or Guy's songs. And as for his fans - of course we're in it for life! MBN, Ava and Prinnie, why don't you each write your comments to Bernard and see how you go. I would really love to know how he reacts. GO GIRLS!!! This is a good idea and I have done so but I don't know if he will read it, or take note. But I've told him (politely) what I thought.
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Post by MaybeNext on Dec 6, 2004 10:48:41 GMT 10
Oh and on one lighter note:
...and all this with his ankle in a brace ;D. I'm surprised Guy was pedestrian at all ;D.
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Post by Sunny on Dec 6, 2004 11:08:00 GMT 10
Yeh!
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Post by nell on Dec 6, 2004 21:32:54 GMT 10
thanks for your comments. I was flaming mad after I first read it, but I have read the article again after aday and I think that he is trying to say some nice things about Guy, but he obviously wants him to move in another direction with the writing. I agree with MBN - Kryptonite is a cracker of a song.
This guy wrote about the Aus Idol COncert (which of course I saw to watch our lovely Guy) and he was actually very supportive of the growth that the idol finalists showed, and for the young talent that had emerged. He especially was impressed that Guy plated the piano for Angels. Overall I am inclined to give BErnard Zuel another chance - he ain't Paul Cashmere lets face it.
Of course, we love Guy and are sure that he will have a long and happy musical career ;D
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Post by sweetpea on Dec 7, 2004 11:42:55 GMT 10
I agree completely with what all of you have said and just have a couple of extra points I'd like to make. Sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes First - "his core group that came to him because of his TV fame, not his material" While it's true we may not have known about Guy without the help of Australian Idol, for me it was his own unique interpretations of well known songs that made me interested in him. I liked the 'Guy" slant he gave them, even songs that I previously didn't like such as Climb Every Mountain (can you believe it I love it now!) and Hit The Road Jack (which I wouldn't listen to if anyone else was singing it). Those interpretations made me interested in hearing what he could write himself and the first song of his that I heard was No More which I really loved. I liked the songs he wrote for JAIA and even more so the ones on BL. Kryptonite is my favourite - its a beautiful song and I'm surprised it hasn't done a lot better. Most of all, I adore Adore and would like to hear some more gospel songs written by Guy. Second - "In a year or two (this group) will have grown up or grown bored" He obviously doesn't realise that ( according to the Proboards poll) the biggest group of fans here is in the over 40 age group. How much growing up do we have to do??? As for growing bored, I think older fans are more certain of what they like and less influenced by trends than some younger ones. No offence to the younger ones here who are a very faithful bunch but those of us who are still here a year later are not just trend followers! We love Guy's music and I don't think any of us would say we are bored with JAIA after a year of intensive listening! Third - "he was made to look pedestrian by his support act...... Jade MacRae" What the? ?? I liked Jade MacRae alright and thought she had a good voice but got a little bit bored with the songs towards the end because it all seemed to be pretty much the same thing. The main difference between her and Guy though was that with Jade I was very concious of watching a singer work her way through her repertoire whereas with Guy I felt totally involved in the whole show because of his rapport and connection with the audience. At the end of Jade's performance I'd watched a good singer but didn't know any more about her but at the end of Guy's performance I felt that I'd just spent the evening with a very close friend and was sorry for it to end. I read a quote the other day which said " Generosity is not how much you give but how much you give of yourself" and I think that's what all of us diehard supporters of Guy love about him and why we will continue to support him - because he gives so much of himself. So there, Mr Zuel!
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